Should the mast fit loosely in the mast well?
- Thread starter slimslam
- Start date
Wayne
Member Emeritus
I don't have an immediate picture, but it's about 1/8" all around, which can appear a little sloppy. Keep in mind, due to the halyard routing and attachment, the mast needs to be able to rotate ("feather") some with booms swings.
There is an APS, 1/2mm thick "anti-wear" tape that will minimize the play.
A flap cut from a flexible notebook cover and wrapped around the mast base works too.
Just don't lock the mast in tight or the halyard will get an extra workout.
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Wayne
Member Emeritus
From Burks Worlds Update posted at Texas Sunfish Racing Circuit
http://www.sunfishracing.org/2010/06/burks-worlds-update.html
Petrel
Member
I'm responding to this and to the "Japanese slick tape" thread. I thought about getting some of this, but I don't race. So I imagine if I keep the mast receiver clean from grit, I'll be okay. I did look up the type of tape (four capital letters with an H in there someplace). Amazon sells that sort of tape. I'm going to try the plastic notebook cover. Secured with?
Duck tape? thread?
On Wednesday I was thinking about putting a thin, nylon circular wafer like disc in the bottom of the mast step/receive/whatchamacallit so that the bottom of the mast would slide and not (ever) grind the bottom of the hole. Maybe a circle of the plastic notebook cover would work.
I have a used Zuma and have also noted how many of the Lasers and Zumas have holes worn through the mast hole. Then there are afterthought gizmos to address that design weakness. Do they make the hulls and mast steps so thin to keep the weight low (for racing) or because of planned demise?
I've got another boat (sailboat, of course) made from that same, very light composite (as opposed to laid fiberglass). I got it very cheaply because the hull had issues. Then when I finally got to actually pick it up (months later -- it was a wild icey winter that year), it had a few more ISSUES. The seller might have added a few when he moved the thing from it's perch on a shed roof. Most of the hull is good, just some HOLES and cracks, the most troubling being INSIDE the daggerboard well which is a tad hard to access. I also can't bulk it up with gobs of glass and resin. So I'm thining about using prayer. No, I think I might try some very thin fiberglass cloth (and then prayer). The boat's neat, lightweight and a bit Zuma like in design with nice spars, thwart and rigging (Harkin). I paid $130 for it but it sold new for $3500 or more. Anyone ever fix such a double cracked (each side) daggerboard well?
So, it appears SF hulls are light in the same way the Zuma is? Composite?
Duck tape? thread?
On Wednesday I was thinking about putting a thin, nylon circular wafer like disc in the bottom of the mast step/receive/whatchamacallit so that the bottom of the mast would slide and not (ever) grind the bottom of the hole. Maybe a circle of the plastic notebook cover would work.
I have a used Zuma and have also noted how many of the Lasers and Zumas have holes worn through the mast hole. Then there are afterthought gizmos to address that design weakness. Do they make the hulls and mast steps so thin to keep the weight low (for racing) or because of planned demise?
I've got another boat (sailboat, of course) made from that same, very light composite (as opposed to laid fiberglass). I got it very cheaply because the hull had issues. Then when I finally got to actually pick it up (months later -- it was a wild icey winter that year), it had a few more ISSUES. The seller might have added a few when he moved the thing from it's perch on a shed roof. Most of the hull is good, just some HOLES and cracks, the most troubling being INSIDE the daggerboard well which is a tad hard to access. I also can't bulk it up with gobs of glass and resin. So I'm thining about using prayer. No, I think I might try some very thin fiberglass cloth (and then prayer). The boat's neat, lightweight and a bit Zuma like in design with nice spars, thwart and rigging (Harkin). I paid $130 for it but it sold new for $3500 or more. Anyone ever fix such a double cracked (each side) daggerboard well?
So, it appears SF hulls are light in the same way the Zuma is? Composite?
Wayne
Member Emeritus
Shouldn't need to secure it with anything..., just cut it to the diameter, roll it, and drop it in. Trim the length so it sticks out the mast step about 1/4" for easy removal.
You should have a bottom cap on the mast. That's precisely its function ... along with plugging the mast.
Sounds like these boats were either sailed without mast bottom caps or no one cleans the grit out of the mast step at the end of the day, so over time neglect has turned it into a mortar & pestle.
Material weakness, actually. But is it..., or is it a trend toward more extreme sailing these days
[1] Yes
[2] They aren't thin - they're beefed up an extra 1/4"..., at least since around the mid-'70s.
[3] How much do you think a Sunfish should weigh? How long should the hull of this weight last?
Which composite is that...
Sunfish, Laser, and Zuma are all constructed with hand laid-up fiberglass using polyester resin.
Can you provide some pictures of the boat and if possible the daggerboard slot?
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Some Laser folks layer the top of a Pringle can on the bottom of the mast tube. Your idea of making your own might work as well. But if your mast bottom plug is smooth and you wash out any dirt before and after you go sailing, you shouldn't loose sleep over this issue.
Somewhat as an aside, for about ten years now, Lasers have been built with a metal wear disk under a thin layer of gelcoat at the bottom of the mast tube. I don't know if the construction of a Sunfish (http://www.sunfishforum.com/content.php?pg=construction) involves placing a similar metal disk at the bottom of the tube. But as I already wrote, if you keep the bottom clean, there's no need to worry.
Petrel
Member
Thanks, Wavedancer and Wayne. And, Wayne, you've got the best collection of graphics!
It's reassuring for me to learn that I don't have to get all nervous about the mast step tube falling apart if I keep it clean of grit and dead bugs and keep the bottom cap on the base of the mast. I'd read that that area can be a stinker to repair, and had seen ads for various laser like boats with leaks around the mast step, so I wondered if I had to take more preventative measures.
Now, to answer Wayne's questions:
Well, not so much answers as some explanation. Can you tell I've never raced? I grew up with wooden boats, then the heavy guage fiberglass hulls like the Skimmar or older Whalers that you could comfortably drag over a barnacle covered ledge or maybe drop when your muscles gave out (cuz they were HEAVY as well as "heavy duty" and sturdy).
Of course, I used them for fun and the whaler was a work boat. When I remember to view these hulls from a racer's perspective, it makes every bit of sense that you wouldn't want them to be a hulk weighing as much as a tug. I've got a HEAVY hull of one of Carl Beetles first fiberglass sailboats (circa 1958-9). It's still solid because it's nearly indestructable with so much material. It will not be winning a race any time soon, unless it's a race over rusting steel and granite ledges.
So, okay, I get it now. I'm thinking of more utilitarian boats and being slightly on the Yankee side, I expect things to last nearly forever, like those heavy beanery coffee mugs.
But I have also read reviews or comments about some small sailboats like the American 14 and others that are made from light materials ("composite" -- sure there must be variations of epoxy resin, STUFF, and other Stuff) and the posters/reviewers have commented that they tend to fail around the mast step or CB well.
I have a couple of boats that are light (apparently intended for racing or going fast) and that don't appear to be made of my impressions of "hand laid" fiberglass cloth with polyester resin. Example: Starwing
That is the one with the crack in the bow, hull, cockput and the bash in the bow and through cracks in the DB well (either side). I'll try to post photos. The db well cracks are not very displaced, but are hard to access. Maybe you can give me some feedback on how I might approach trying to repair the cracks -- at least enough so that the boat doesn't take on water (it has an intrahull space with a drain plug). The bash on the bow, I can probably repair, but I don't know if I can make it pretty. The boat was originally an expensive thing and has a huge ?solid mahogany DB, what looks like a teak or mahogany center thwart (row/sail), Harkin blocks, nice anodized spars. Missing jib, but a crisp mainsail. The design reminds me a bit of the Zuma in that the gunwhales are broad and curved "WING" -like outward. I've got too many boats now so will likely sell it, but I'd like to sail it first.
I've got an older SUNFISH that looks as though its got a much thicker (glass cloth) hull than the ?1975? hull I'm now sailing (that has a hole in the hull that I patched temporarily).
It's reassuring for me to learn that I don't have to get all nervous about the mast step tube falling apart if I keep it clean of grit and dead bugs and keep the bottom cap on the base of the mast. I'd read that that area can be a stinker to repair, and had seen ads for various laser like boats with leaks around the mast step, so I wondered if I had to take more preventative measures.
Now, to answer Wayne's questions:
Well, not so much answers as some explanation. Can you tell I've never raced? I grew up with wooden boats, then the heavy guage fiberglass hulls like the Skimmar or older Whalers that you could comfortably drag over a barnacle covered ledge or maybe drop when your muscles gave out (cuz they were HEAVY as well as "heavy duty" and sturdy).
Of course, I used them for fun and the whaler was a work boat. When I remember to view these hulls from a racer's perspective, it makes every bit of sense that you wouldn't want them to be a hulk weighing as much as a tug. I've got a HEAVY hull of one of Carl Beetles first fiberglass sailboats (circa 1958-9). It's still solid because it's nearly indestructable with so much material. It will not be winning a race any time soon, unless it's a race over rusting steel and granite ledges.
So, okay, I get it now. I'm thinking of more utilitarian boats and being slightly on the Yankee side, I expect things to last nearly forever, like those heavy beanery coffee mugs.
But I have also read reviews or comments about some small sailboats like the American 14 and others that are made from light materials ("composite" -- sure there must be variations of epoxy resin, STUFF, and other Stuff) and the posters/reviewers have commented that they tend to fail around the mast step or CB well.
I have a couple of boats that are light (apparently intended for racing or going fast) and that don't appear to be made of my impressions of "hand laid" fiberglass cloth with polyester resin. Example: Starwing
That is the one with the crack in the bow, hull, cockput and the bash in the bow and through cracks in the DB well (either side). I'll try to post photos. The db well cracks are not very displaced, but are hard to access. Maybe you can give me some feedback on how I might approach trying to repair the cracks -- at least enough so that the boat doesn't take on water (it has an intrahull space with a drain plug). The bash on the bow, I can probably repair, but I don't know if I can make it pretty. The boat was originally an expensive thing and has a huge ?solid mahogany DB, what looks like a teak or mahogany center thwart (row/sail), Harkin blocks, nice anodized spars. Missing jib, but a crisp mainsail. The design reminds me a bit of the Zuma in that the gunwhales are broad and curved "WING" -like outward. I've got too many boats now so will likely sell it, but I'd like to sail it first.
I've got an older SUNFISH that looks as though its got a much thicker (glass cloth) hull than the ?1975? hull I'm now sailing (that has a hole in the hull that I patched temporarily).
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Wayne
Member Emeritus
“Google Images” for the most part, except where Sunfish specific items are involved, then it's the library archives at Sunfish Sailor.
Extrapolating one builder’s design flaws to all similar boats or compiling all flaws of all boats over all time and projecting them onto any successor will make your head spin into a blur and explode. Better to take each boat individually and stick to the real-world conditions pertaining to it. Most often the issues are not nearly so much a fault of the boat as the way it’s been cared for.
OK…, I remember that period in time, though there are a lot of childhood apprenticeship hours re-doing paint & canvas over wood or just endlessly painting and varnishing I could stand to forget.
Enter the era of the beach boat. Obvious by their light weight these aren’t your father’s fishing dories, dinghies, and skiffs. They are, however, widely affordable, car-topable, and two kids can easily transport one on foot across a dune to the water’s edge.
This new generation of fun-craft is all made of composite materials. Some are strong some not so strong. Some well designed, some just mimic appearance to ride the coattails of the successful.
Composite can be hand laid polyester resin and fiberglass fabric, ABS plastic sheet pre-formed to a shape and fit over a formed piece of rigid foam, or something in-between, sometimes even exotic like epoxy and carbon fiber. Different materials for different levels of use and different budgets.
I see you’ve been asking around about this boat since at least 2008, I also find some pictures of this boat on the Net, but not a lot of info. I can’t tell from your photo how its constructed. Does your boat have an inspection port like the one pictured at ShortyPen.com? If so, what’s the underside of the hull look like. Because an error in identification of materials could lead to disastrous results I’m not even going to venture a guess. If you find more information on it’s construction, I’ll be glad to offer any insights I can, until then…
Not surprising. Since the Alcort, Inc. days the boat has undergone some refinement. Today it’s a good 20 lb lighter, but through better production control it's probably more consistently built.
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