i'm making my own dagger, questions?

7

73sunfish

New Member
1) I'm making a new dagger out of red oak, has anyone here ever made one out of oak?

2) I went to the store to buy varnish for it and ran into an issue. I read that I might have to seal the pores first before varnishing the dagger.. What is this about? Why can't I just put marine varnish on it?

3) If I started making daggers out of red oak how much could I sell them for???

thanks
 
I know nothing about making wooden marine parts, but the reference is probably to a painting product called "sanding sealer".

When you are staining wood, different parts of the bare wood in question can absorb the stain at different degrees of penetration, thus creating a non-uniform look (dark areas where the stain has REALLY absorbed into the wood vs. light areas where the stain has just been partially absorbed).
Sanding sealer solves this problem. Once sanding sealer has been applied and dried, you can then follow up with a stain selection and get a level, uniform look. I assume your reading must be telling you that this same philosophy applies when applying marine varnishes as well...
 
so, sealing the dagger first might just be a cosmetic issue? I just want to make sure the varnish lasts and doesn't start to flake prematurely.

wouldn't the varnish last longer if it was absorbed deeper into the wood? why seal it then?

thx..:)
 
73sunfish said:
1) I'm making a new dagger out of red oak, has anyone here ever made one out of oak?

2) I went to the store to buy varnish for it and ran into an issue. I read that I might have to seal the pores first before varnishing the dagger.. What is this about? Why can't I just put marine varnish on it?

3) If I started making daggers out of red oak how much could I sell them for???

thanks
Click to expand...
Wood for boat building is usually choosen for some combination of or all the following qualities: rot resistance (as in high levels of natural oils), straight grain, tight grain, and strength.

When you look up the properties of Red Oak do you find it will be a suitable wood for a working part in a marine application?

Here's some help to get your research started:
http://www.glen-l.com/wood-plywood/bb-chap5c.html#species
http://www2.fpl.fs.fed.us/TechSheets/techmenu.html
http://www.foe.co.uk/campaigns/biodiversity/resource/good_wood_guide/wood_timber_types_a_to_g.html

Other resources:
http://www.woodenboat.com
 
sigh, the thought of using cedar for my dagger ran across my mind for a few seconds..

i guess red oak might be tolerable for my dagger, white oak would be better, and mahogany would be ideal, if i was rich..

:Dthx
 
73sunfish said:
sigh, the thought of using cedar for my dagger ran across my mind for a few seconds..

i guess red oak might be tolerable for my dagger, white oak would be better, and mahogany would be ideal, if i was rich..

:Dthx
Click to expand...

Philippine Mahogany has almost all the qualities of true Mahogany for a lower price. Actually the original daggerboard and rudder were made from Philippine Mahogany.

You can use woods with lesser properties just don't expect them to hold up.... and as your supplier pointed out, they may require a larger investment in finishing to achieve suitable water resistance. It's a trade off between longevity or more frequent replacement. Marine plywood will buy you a season or two to save up for a better wood.
 
I used White Oak from Home Depo, Spar Varnish Stain then Poly. The trouble with any finish is the enviroment the Daggerboard is in. Sort of a abrasive water/ sand enviroment and then there is the bottom sand. You are going to have to reapply Spar Varnish/Poly as needed. A clear epoxy coating sprayed on would probably be much better but that is too much work for me. The good part is you can reprofile your blade easily with a block plane, reapply the Varnish and be good to go. Don't make it too fancy the first time, you'll need to do some expermenting to get the right shape profile.
 
73sunfish said:
I read that I might have to seal the pores first before varnishing the dagger.. What is this about? Why can't I just put marine varnish on it?
Click to expand...

Oak is an "open grain" wood, meaning that the pores are open, literally small voids. if you compare a smooth surface oak board with a smooth surface board of, say, birch, maple, mahogany, you can see that oak has voids in the surface whereas the others mentioned don't. When you are coating the wood, this means that the finish will take many coats to fill those voids. If you fill the voids with a paste wood filler, then the finish will go on a smooth surface, rather than one with voids. Without the filler, you will still get a continuous coating, but it may take more coats, and won't be as smooth until you have applied many coats.
 
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DSCN3724.jpg
 
As a wood worker, I know that red oak is like a bundle of straws. You can literally blow air up the grain. :(

White oak not so.

Red oak will probably water-log despite your best efforts to seal it.

Secular
 
iconoclast said:
As a wood worker, I know that red oak is like a bundle of straws. You can literally blow air up the grain. :(

White oak not so.

Red oak will probably water-log despite your best efforts to seal it.

Secular
Click to expand...

i've already put about 7 hours into it, i'll have to find out by experimenting with this one. i'll post pictures when done. hopefully it will last till next season..

-thank you all for your input!
 
That looks great! The finish looks like epoxy - that's what I refinished my old board with. Epoxy is kind of hard to get smooth. I finally ended up just sanding off the last few bubbles, bumps, runs. Since my gear doesn't spend much time outside, I didn't cover it with varnish, just used the UV-resistant epoxy. It made it easier when there were minor repairs to make to the epoxy.
 
davavd said:
That looks great! The finish looks like epoxy - that's what I refinished my old board with. Epoxy is kind of hard to get smooth. I finally ended up just sanding off the last few bubbles, bumps, runs. Since my gear doesn't spend much time outside, I didn't cover it with varnish, just used the UV-resistant epoxy. It made it easier when there were minor repairs to make to the epoxy.
Click to expand...

I'm using Epiphanes Varnish and it's taking longer than I had planned. I guess I've averaged 4 days between coats, because of sanding and redrying after sanding in order to be able to dry sand it again.

I did come across a few spots in the board where the wood grain is slightly open, in those spots the resin is sunk in a little, though it shouldn't be a problem by my last coat and even then i can always just add varnish to any open grain as needed. "I now know why they sell wood sealer.. If i had added sealer to those open grains (not the whole board) i would have not had this problem.." " I think wood filler would have also done the job."

Time spent on board to date: + - 9hours
Cost of Materials: about $75

I still need another can of varnish to finish this board.. add another $30..
 
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