Bailer leak?

After a recent afternoon of sailing, I noticed a small amount of water inside the hull of my previously dry 2003 hull. I sponged it out, put a shop light inside the inspection port overnight, and all was dry.

Next outing, in a light-air afternoon, another few ounces appeared. Light air meant there was no water in the mast step, none over the deck and next-to-none in the cockpit, so I could reasonably rule out problems in those areas. After sponging the water out, I inspected the bottom for obvious cracks or defects. Nothing.

In checking and removing the bailer, I found that the large o-ring between the external bailer and the hull had been removed. Silicone caulk had been used instead.

Could a leak there have been the culprit? Should I order the replacement o-ring and see if that fixes it? Or should the silicone's presence tip me off that the o-ring hadn't worked before and might not work again, making necessary another caulk job?

Any counsel would be appreciated....

Best,
Kevin

Kevin,
I replaced the bailer on my fish recently, and there is no way for water to get into the hull from there. It is solid fiberglass around the bailer hole. I dont know about your hull. Take the bailer off. If you see any voids that may lead into the hull, you should fill them with thickened epoxy, marine tek, chopped fiberglass putty, or similar material.

Kevin, is it possible that there is a slow leak somewhere in the daggerboard trunk? Niko is right...when I did my bailer last week, I found solid fiberglass. No way for the water to get into the hull from there, barring something really unusual. Any chips on the hull that might wick water in? Is it possible for water to weep in around the gudgeon plate? Sounds like something insidious that will take a bit of tracking down. Best of luck.

Yeah, there is a very very small chance that it is leaking into the hull from there. If it was leaking at all there, a little water would just leak into the cockpit. The dagerboard trunk is a very likely place for a leak to happen.

Have you tryed pressure testing the hull?

Have you considered doing an air pressure test?

nikobrogna said:

Kevin,
I replaced the bailer on my fish recently, and there is no way for water to get into the hull from there. It is solid fiberglass around the bailer hole. I dont know about your hull. Take the bailer off. If you see any voids that may lead into the hull, you should fill them with thickened epoxy, marine tek, chopped fiberglass putty, or similar material.

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Hate to disagree, but water can enter the hull via the bailer hole. This happens when space has opened up between the floor of the cockpit and the hull (due to age and flexing). This can be fixed rather easily with 3M 5200 or similar.

As Brian wrote, use a soap solution around the bailer and see if it bubbles under slight pressure (close the vent hole and blow some air into the hull through the drainhole).

I could see that happening on a boat as old as mine, absolutely...but Kevin's boat is a 2003. I would hate to see that happen in a 3 year old boat. I agree that the only way to be sure is pressure-test it. Kevin, please update us on this because it will probably happen to me in the future!

Not common, but even on brand new boats, some one after a liquid lunch could have missed the bailer when doing the sealing caulking prior to putting the components together.
But I would look at the dagger board well when checking, A LOT more boats leak there into the hull than the bailer.

UPDATE; POST LEAK-TEST

Since I already had the bailer removed and suspected it might be the problem, I sealed it back on with 5200, sans the stock o-ring between external bailer and hull. The next day, I sailed for a few hours; stiff breeze, choppy and wet. Opened the inspection port to find -- you guessed it -- a few ounces of water. Less than a half cup, but still...

Today, the shop vac came out, the inspection port (I only have one) was PARTLY taped over and the soap/water mix flowed from a paint brush. Nothing around the bailer. Nothing around the daggerboard trunk. I also checked the coaming, all fittings, cockpit seam and gudgeons. Nothing.

But the mast step was another story.... A hairline crack near the top of the step blew bubbles like crazy! I was also able to get a bubble layer to form across the tube, about an inch below the deck. That bubble sat suspended with no movement, so I'm assuming there's nothing leaking lower in the tube, only near the top.

Still hard to believe that's the cause ("Who are you going to believe? Me? Or your lying eyes?"). But it is, at the very least, one cause. Any water in the tube reaches the top when the mast is stepped. And any water taken on does the same.

Now, for the repair. Is this something I can do with Marine-Tex? Or will I be learning about chopped up glass fiber and resin? Any sanding tips for such a not-so-easy to reach spot?

Further counsel appreciated.

Best,
Kevin

I'm hoping this attaches a picture of the crack/leak...

Kevin

Kevin Pierce said:

UPDATE; POST LEAK-TEST

Now, for the repair. Is this something I can do with Marine-Tex? Or will I be learning about chopped up glass fiber and resin? Any sanding tips for such a not-so-easy to reach spot?

Further counsel appreciated.

Best,
Kevin

Click to expand...

This should be easy: http://www.teamvanguard.com/2005/ba...&dir=core&page=boats_repair&boatid=6#rigging7

Question: If this is the only leak, you shouldn't collect any water on a light day with no water getting into the step. True or false?

Wavedancer said:

This should be easy: http://www.teamvanguard.com/2005/ba...&dir=core&page=boats_repair&boatid=6#rigging7

Question: If this is the only leak, you shouldn't collect any water on a light day with no water getting into the step. True or false?

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As long as that is the ONLY leak, then if water isnt coming over the bow then no water should get into the hall. At least thats my take on it

As for what to use, Marinetex is epoxy resin with a filler and will be as strong as any fiber/resin mix you can make up. The other soultion would be to use glass cloth and resin.
In either case you'll need to do some grinding for room for the patching material. there isn't a whole lot of room between the mast and the hole.

Somewhere along the line that mast step took a heck of a hit. Any marks on the mast?

I agree that this seems an unlikely source of water in the hull -- especially on a light air day. But it is certainly a leak, so I'll Marine-tex it this weekend and see what else might show up once it's sealed. As for how the crack came to be, I have no idea. Could the halyard purchase and vanging cause/promote this?

Kevin

If they cause a problem it's usually with the bottom of the mast step. Commonly sand or dirt will get in there and the extra downforce over time will grind away at the material in the bottom of the step; just like you added sanpaper under the mast.
Cracking near the top is usually caused by a force acting perpendicular/sideways to the mast . Like mine was when I turtled the boat and ended up with the mast stuck in the bottom mud. The boat was really stuck in the mud..DEEP in about 7 foot of water and with a heavy wind I couldn't get the boat righted against the wind and a power boat "helped" me and actually pulled the boat "over" the mast and lifted it a couple feet in the air while doing it. Needless to say I had a crack that resembled your's.

I very much Disagree. I had this problem and water got into my hull and I have an 04'. What the problem is, is that your deck and your mast step are seperating. The crack is not only in the gelcoat, it is all the way through. Any water flowing over the deck will find its way in. You will need some glass work done. What I had to do is grind all the gelcoat off in a 6" diameter larger than the mast hole and down into the step 3 to 4" and take a chisel and open the seperation. Then mix some epoxy and fill the gap ( this is more to hold the deck back down). Turn the boat over on blocks so the weight of the boat rests on the mast step and leave until dry. Then you will need to reglass the deck and mast step back together, folding the glass down in to the step. Then comes the sanding, filling with bondo, sanding, re-gelcoating and finally wet sanding It is a very time consuming but can be done. If you are not familiar with glass work and gelcoating, I suggest you get some one to help you as you do not want to do this more than once. This is a very common problem with newer boats beleived to be caused by not having a cleat on the mast to take the pressure off the deck.

Kevin Pierce said:

After a recent afternoon of sailing, I noticed a small amount of water inside the hull of my previously dry 2003 hull.

Click to expand...

Did you inspect the hull before you went sailing?

Nearly everything "sealed" can gain condensation inside—over time.

UPDATE: POST-REPAIR GOODNESS

I repaired the mast-step crack yesterday morning. Sanded it, roughed it up with a screwdriver tip, cleaned it with acetone and filled it with Marine-tex. This morning, I sanded everything flush (though it's a tough spot for that) and went for a sail.

Two hours later, the inside of the hull was still bone dry. I'll keep an eye on it, but the culprit seems to have been apprehended.

Thanks, everyone, for the suggestions. The shop-vac leak test is easier than I imagined and should be the first line of defense for anyone trying to sniff out a leak.

Best,
Kevin

Kevin,
Keep an eye on the repair. I hope everything works out for you. Although I fear that it is only a band-aid fix. I think that you are going to have this problem come back. I tried a light glass job the first time I repaired mine and it lasted about a month and came back. Then I had to use the method in my previous post to permenantly repair the problem.